How many of us have been affected by domestic violence, and we didn’t even know it? Honestly, I think almost all of us have. Domestic violence is so prevalent, especially in the Latino community. Almost every person I know has a story or an incident, whether it happened to us personally, to friends, or to a family member. And it continues because of this silence that the Latino community emphasizes to “keep the family together.” But no more. 

Judy Torres is the Director of Domestic Violence Services at Hispanos Unidos de Buffalo, where she leads programs designed to support, educate, and empower survivors. With 36 years of experience as a 911 dispatcher with the Buffalo Police Department, she brings a wealth of expertise in crisis management to her role. Judy has secured over $800,000 in federal funding to expand services for DV survivors in Buffalo – with which they hired additional advocates and produced enhanced, culturally relevant resources for clients. As a bilingual professional fluent in both English and Spanish, Judy is deeply committed to ensuring that language is never a barrier to accessing support. 

In this week’s episode, we’re answering the question: Are you in an abusive relationship without knowing it? Domestic Violence Program Director Judy Torres joins us on this week’s episode to explain the shocking ways domestic violence has been normalized in the Latino community and what survivors can do to get help. There’s so much pressure to stay and “keep the family together,” but you can’t stay in a situation that costs you your well-being, or worse, your life.

Tune in to hear what counts as domestic violence and what resources you and your community can use to get out of a bad situation. 

Resources Mentioned:

Find resources here at Hispanos Unidos De Buffalo 

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Podcast production for this episode was provided by CCST, an Afro-Latina-owned boutique podcast production and copywriting studio. 

Episode Transcript:

Erika: Before we get into today’s episode, I did want to offer a trigger warning. We are talking about domestic violence as well as abuse and some really heavy stories in this podcast episode. I wanted to warn you, I do think it’s an important listen, but please take care of [00:01:00] yourself and know that we are going to be discussing some pretty heavy topics.

Now, the silence in our community around domestic violence, that silence is literally part of the problem, and today I am sitting down with Judy Torres, who is a woman that spent 36 years as a 911 dispatcher and has dedicated the last nine years to supporting survivors of domestic violence through Hispanos Unidos de Buffalo.

We talk about the different forms of abuse that a lot of times go unrecognized. We talk about the cultural pressures that keep people silent, and what happens when survivors do not make a report. It is heavy. This episode is heavy, but it is also very necessary, so let’s get into it. 

Judy, I have been looking forward to this conversation with you. We are speaking about a topic that a lot of times is not talked about in the Latino Hispanic [00:02:00] community, but, um, it is very prominent and it’s an important, important topic. But before we get into that topic, can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your background and the work you do, the work you have done, and then the work you’re currently doing today with Hispanos Unidos de Buffalo?

Judy: Um, of course. My name is Judy Torres. I am director of domestic, uh, violence at Hispanos Unidos of Buffalo. Um, first and foremost, thank you for the opportunity to be here and to discuss a topic that, you know, needs a whole lot more discussion. I spent 36 years working with the Buffalo Police Department in dispatching.

Erika: Um, I retired in 2016, lasted four months in retirement, and then came to Hispanics United in May of ’17. Um, I started here as an advocate, and in December of that year, they offered me the directorship, and I’ve been doing it since then. So I’m m- I’m nine years into this now with Hispanics [00:03:00] United Wonderful. And, you’ve done a lot as you’ve been there. Um, I know last time we, we had a brief conversation around, um, grants and fundraising and things like that. Would you mind, sharing a little bit about that? I think as women, we don’t give ourselves enough credit, and I really wanna highlight what you’ve done there because one, this is such an important topic and issue.

Um, but two, we know that in this capitalistic society, without funding you can’t really do much. So can you tell us a little bit about the funding that you’ve received for the program?

Judy: Yes. Um, when I started, um, with Hub and the, the DV program, the only monies that they were receiving was from, um, Erie County. Um, um, and that was a grant for $134,000, which basically just covered, um, salaries. Um, since the inception of when I’ve been here, uh, throughout all the grants that I have, um, worked [00:04:00] on and secured for my clients, it’s a little over a million dollars in, in the timeframe that I’ve been here.

Erika: Um, yeah, it’s… And, and 95% of them dollars went directly to my clients. Directly to clients. It is, yes. Unfortunately, some of that is not coming back, so, um, it’s unfortunate. But we’ll see. Um, the governor here is working really hard. She’s a real advocate for, um, uh, domestic violence, so maybe they’ll, um, we’ll, she’ll filter some dollars down and hopefully I can grab some We hope so, yeah. And hopefully doing interviews like this and spreading awareness will also inspire other people who may want to, to donate. So we’ll be sure to link down below all of your, um, websites and contact information in the event that this podcast resonates with somebody. But, um, you spent 36 years as a 911 dispatcher before stepping into this [00:05:00] role.

How did that experience shape your understanding of domestic violence?

Judy: Okay. So that experience as a dispatch, uh, prepared me for my role with domestic violence in several important ways. Um, as a dispatcher and a call taker for 911, I learned how to stay calm in crisis, assess situations quickly, make the decisions when emotions are, and stakes are really hard, high. Um, so every call required that active listening, that empathy, the ability to gra- gather critical information while supporting the person at the other end, um, who is more than likely experiencing fear, trauma, and danger.

So that experience gave me a deep understanding on how domestic violence impacts individuals and families, as well as the challenges that survivors face while seeking that help. It [00:06:00] also taught me the importance of collaboration, since dispatchers, um, work closely with law enforcement, emergency responders, and community resources to ensure people’s safety.

Um, in my current role, the skills are the same. Essentially, they’re the same. I help lead programs, advocate for survivors, coordinate with community partners, and respond to complex situations with both compassion and professionalism. While settings are different, yes, they are different, um, the common thread is serving people during the most difficult moments of their lives and helping them connect with support and resources that they need to move forward safely and to become stable, yeah, and understand, the whys and the what-fors of domestic violence.

To be able to identify, those situations early on, hopefully. Um, it doesn’t always [00:07:00] happen that way. So when you dispatch, it’s live, and when we come here, when the, when the, the client comes here, then it’s, it’s already, it already has happened. So, so like that, there’s that dynamic of, um, from my end of it would be a little bit higher in terms of anxiety while I’m doing it live, as opposed to when the person is here and I’m looking to calm the situation and try to help them and, um, guide them to, um, a safe and stable, whether it’s home or just moving them someplace else or giving them the, the information and the resources that are needed

Erika: So I know you mentioned like really being an active listener, and I remember, this must have been about three years ago, there was a video that was going kind of viral on, on social media, and it was just… Maybe it was longer than that. But it was an audio call of somebody making a call to 911. [00:08:00] It was– I’m sorry, it was just the audio recording.

Obviously, there’s no video, it was just the call. So this woman was calling 911 to report a domestic violence case, but she had to do it in a way that was really safe so that the, uh, perpetrator, is that how I would say that? Wouldn’t know what w- what, what call was happening. So what she did was she called and she said, “Hi, I’d like to order a pizza.”

And the dispatcher says, uh, “Ma’am, I think you have the wrong number.” And she’s like, “No, I, I don’t.” So then the dispatcher catches on and like did such a phenomenal job and she starts kind of ordering this pizza, but it was the safest way for her to get the address deliv- to pretty much communicate the address without the perpetrator knowing what was happening.

And I just remember listening to that call and, um, wow, like dispatchers re- you really have to read between the lines. You really have to be a proactive listener and, and be very, uh, aware, and also, to [00:09:00] your point, very calm. So, um, just kudos to you and anybody who works in that industry because, um, I feel like…

You even said, right, you can’t react with your, your emotions. You have to make quick decisions. And, uh, I feel like I would be triggered by hearing what’s going on on the other side of the phone. So just thank you for, for your service there.

Judy: some people say they, they say the burnout rate for that job is five years. Um, I did 36, and I don’t know how. But, um, to, to piggyback off of that, where that woman made the call, I had a call once that came from, um, a woman who started the conversation asking me about the children. “Are the kids okay?”

You know, “What’s, what’s going on with them?” Yada, yada, ya. She went on, and I said, “Are you in some kind of trouble?” She said, “Yeah.” I said, “Can you tell me where you’re at?” She said, “No, I can’t.” “Can you give me some information?” And it got to where back in that time, we didn’t have the system we have now. We didn’t have it.

Um, 911 had a book [00:10:00] that was probably this thick of all of the payphones in our city. She was at a payphone. So what I did was I kinda geared the conversation into buying clothes for the kids so that she can get me a phone number, and we did that. And through the phone number, we found out where she was.

She was at, uh, actually in our city hall, and she was being held against her will by a, um, oh, I don’t know what you would call that. It’s like a, hmm, like an intern to a, a council member or something. And he was holding her against her will there. And so he was arrested for, um, for kidnapping and attempted rape.

But that’s how we got her, um, by, you know, by s- having her say, “Well, yeah, this is gonna cost this much,” and, and that’s how we got her number, and we looked it up, and that’s how we found her. So sometimes you have to… Now it’s different. It’s very, very different now. We have the computer-aided dispatch, and that gives us [00:11:00] information, and the, the pinging on a cell phone is within, you know, 500 to 100 feet.

So it’s different. It’s different

Erika: Yeah. Wow, that’s incredible. Great job with that. So most people, when they think about domestic violence, they imagine physical abuse. But y- the last time you and I spoke, we had a great conversation about this. Can you explain the different forms of abuse that can often go unrecognized, and what domestic violence really– all the different types of domestic violence there can be?

Judy: Okay. So obviously that’s the greatest myth. Most people will come, “Well, he doesn’t hit me, he doesn’t do…” But we have– you have emotional abuse, you have psychological abuse, which I will say sometimes are worse than the physical part of it, okay? Because that’s a, that’s like a, um, like a Chinese torture. You know, it’s constant, constant, constant, constant.

Um, financial abuse is a big one that [00:12:00] kinda goes un-unspoken. Um, people don’t kinda think about that. I mean, I had a client once where he forced her to sell her house. Forced her to sell her house. So you have, uh, the digital now, digital and technology abuse. Um, a lot of times they want– they have compromising pictures, and they’re threatening to put those out there on social media and yeah.

So that’s a, that’s another force of control. You know, the pattern of domination that may include monitoring movements, controlling clothing, restricting friendships, dictating daily activities or threatening immigration status is a big one now because of the influx of the immigration and the asylum seekers that we have in this area.

Sexual coercion or reproductive abuse. “I’m not gonna let you…” You know, “Don’t take your pills.” Um, y- that kind of stuff. You know, pressuring and forcing sexual activity, sabotaging birth control, forcing a pregnancy or refusing to get [00:13:00] protection, to have protection. Isolation, you know, you– that’s, that, that is the onset of DV.

The onset of DV is isolation. That’s where everything starts when they just start to really isolate you from friends, family, and all those people that could be a support group for you. You have the cultural immigration-related abuse. What that means, they use language barrier, cultures, cultural stigma, immigration status, threat of deportation, and m- to maintain power and control.

It’s a sad day when you have people who are here from Latin American countries and don’t know the language, but their partners have really buckled down on telling them, “I will contact immigration.” So that is a problem. You have spiritual and religious abuse That misusing the religion or faith to justify abuse, shaming the survivor, or preventing them from seeking help.

Um, that happens a lot, [00:14:00] the Muslim community, where, the culture plays a big part and it’s intertwined with the religion so that DV is not something that is exposed. Um, I’ve had clients but, uh, far and few in between. Um, the abuse through children, okay? Abuse through children. Manipulating the children against the parent, threatening custody, using visitation to intimidate or exposing the children to violence.

A lot of times, the idea is to turn those kids against the parents or the mother or the,victim at this point. And, it’s a sad day. It’s– If you think about, we just had an incident in Mechaniv- Mechanicalville, New York. I don’t know if you heard about that, where there a mother, a mother, her daughter, and the four children, they were found dead in their apartment.

Well, the story comes out this way.I guess they were all poisoned. The grandmother left a note, [00:15:00] and apparently the father, who lives out of state, had filed for custody, but he was gonna come on the 30th to pick up the kids to take them for a summer month. And the grand- the grandmother decided to do that.

There was a 13-year-old, 11-year-old, and twin 10-year-olds, herself and her daughter. So, you know, using the children, see what I’m saying? A lot of times that’s, that’s a, a big issue also. Um, verbal abuse, obviously it is what it is, the harassment, you know, yelling threats, you know, mocking, public humiliation, um, stalking and harassment, following someone repeatedly, unwanted contact, uh, GPS monitors.

That’s

Erika: Mm-hmm.

Judy: one of the big ones now. Um, they do that or track you on your phone. Um, and post-separation abuse is probably pretty bad ’cause it continues even after, even after whether [00:16:00] there’s a divorce or they break up, more so when there’s children involved. That kinda keeps that cycle going for not probably as deep, but it keeps it going.

So yeah, in many communities, especially in underserved and,immigrant communities. Um, survivors may not identify with any of these behaviors, not at all, a-as an abuse because of cultural norms, fear, shame, economic dependency or lack of information about healthy relationships

Erika: Wow. I feel like we could do a podcast episode on each one of those forms of abuse because I- there’s so much to say.

Judy: There is. There is.

Erika: Wow. So the common signs of emotional and physiological abuse that people might dismiss may come from, from culture, like you just mentioned, right? So what are, what are some of those things that might be dismissed? Maybe

Judy: it’s the constant criticism.

Erika: Mmm, oh.

Judy: the humiliation, um, the [00:17:00] intimidation, the name-calling, uh, manipulation or making someone feel worthless or crazy. Gaslighting comes to play in that. It’s, it’s a terrible thing because, my sister, who happened to be a little bit overweight, well, no, she was a lot overweight, but in conversations, her husband would say, to get affirmation from her, he would turn around and say, “Isn’t that right, Slim?”

She’s overweight, and he would say, “Isn’t that right, Slim?” Well, needless to say, I put a stop to that, but that’s an example, right? That’s an example of that type of humiliation or nobody’s gonna want you. You got four kids. You don’t know how to work. You can’t do anything. You’re, you know, it’s that constant putting them down and just stripping them of who they are.

You’d be surprised. You’d be surprised, um, how that affects women, how that, how they sit here and they just, they just fall apart because they’re just– They’re not themselves. They’re not, [00:18:00] they’re not who they want to be because they’re, they identify with somebody who has told them this for a long time, and they begin to believe it believe that they’re not worthy

Erika: Mm-hmm. My, my dad’s nickname for my mom– My, my parents are divorced. They’re separated since I was about 12, but I remember my dad’s nickname for my mom was gorda, fat. But, um, she’s not fat. And even now she’ll still say, “I’m fat,” because she spent so much time in that relationship. It was 20 years of a constant affirmation of this…

And she maybe, you know, after kids, like, yes, of course people gain weight, your body changes, but she’s naturally a, a thinner person. And even if she wasn’t, right, still that’s not the nickname you want to give somebody that you actually care about. So I see the long-term effects of this and how it, it just is ingrained in her identity and she’s constantly like n- not wanting to be fat.

She’s like– Uh, even this [00:19:00] morning we were having breakfast and she was like, “I’m trying to eat smaller portions.” And I’m like, “Why? So you can eat again in just a moment?” I get not overeating. I understand that, right? But, um, yeah, so very interesting that we’re having this conversation today. Um, why do you think so many survivors struggle to identify that they’ve been in an abusive relationship?

Judy: Uh, I’d have to say Because abuse is usually very gradual

Erika: Mmm.

Judy: It’s very gradual. Um, it develops gradually. Um, mo- many abusive, uh, relationship always begin with affection. They begin with support. They begin with trust, okay? And then the controlling behav- behaviors often increase slowly over time, making it difficult for them to recognize when a relationship becomes unhealthy.[00:20:00] 

So it’s the idea of like, for instance, when it starts, they, they wanna be with your family ’cause you think it’s important. You know, you spend time with my family, I’ll spend time with your family. Then all of a sudden we get to the point where, you know, I think I’d rather spend time with you, just you and me.

You see where the isolation is starting? I don’t wanna be with your family, but… So you’re thinking, “Oh, how sweet. He wants to spend time with me.” Do you see what I’m saying? See how- You see how that runs? And nine times out of 10, that’s the way it works, but, you know, it, we could have cases where that isn’t the case, but it happens gradually.

And a lot of times because,also they think that normalization of harmful behaviors. Survivors may have grown up witnessing similar dynamics or may have been taught that jealousy, control, and emotional cru- cruelty is a normal thing, a part of a relationship. You have that. You have [00:21:00] clients who come through here who will express and tell you about how their parents were, you know, their father or their mother were physically abusive, and that’s the environment that they grew up in.

So you tend to think it’s normal, right? It’s not. Until somebody tells you it’s not, you’ll think it’s okay. So not, not recognizing those things for what they actually are is a lot of times they struggle to identify those, um, acts of, uh, power and control. We had a woman in here the other day who was just losing it. When I tell you she was losing it, I’m go- I’m thinking, “Oh my goodness, what am I gonna do?” She loves him. Lo- oh, she loves him. “Yeah, I love him. I don’t wanna put him in jail.” How do you tell someone that even though you love this person, this is not healthy and [00:22:00] we’re living in a time where this person can actually kill you? “Oh, no, he wouldn’t do that.” I said, “Really? Really. Do you think you know what can trigger anybody?” Now, let’s just think of the DV portion of it. Now add in the factor of maybe alcoholism, drug abuse, okay?

Mental health. Let’s all add all that into that pot and you’re still gonna tell me you think that he would not? But they love him, and they don’t wanna leave, and they don’t want him to get arrested. They want to harm Abusers are gonna deny any harmful behavior. They blame the survivor by saying to make questions like their own reality over time, “See what you made me do?

You made me do this.” Really? And it’s all about that gaslighting. Fear is another one that, survivors, they fear the retaliation, the violence, the loss of children, homelessness, [00:23:00] deportation, financial instability, community shame if they acknowledge the abuse or seek help. So that plays a big part in it when we talk about the culture part of it, ’cause there is shame and fear, especially for men who are victims.

Erika: Hmm.

Judy: Men who are victims, there’s that, uh, what would we call it? Is it that macho attitude? Kinda like, “I can’t report this because,” right? Because I’m a man and it shouldn’t be happening to me. Not so. I’ve had quite a few, uh, you know, clients who were men who came through here who were being abused. Um, again, we’re going back to where they have struggle to identify. Isolation is another one. They think that

being, I’m in happy– I’m in this happy nucleus for whatever it’s worth. I have my family. He’s here. He supports me financially. [00:24:00] Um, yeah, you know, we got this abuse, we got this problem going on, but it’s not all the time. It’s just… You know what I’m saying? So that kinda gets them to stay and not try to make that form of exodus.

Erika: Sometimes it’s too late. But anyway, so They just don’t want to recognize it for the reasons That are obvious. Meaning, if I don’t recognize it, I’m not gonna lose my financial support, I’m not gonna lose my home, I’m not gonna lose all the things that come in spite of the DV Yeah. You, you said so many great things. So, or, but not gr- well, brought up great points I want to ensure we talk about. So first, as you mentioned the different types of abuses, I can’t help but imagine a… Let’s say that there is [00:25:00] an immigrant woman here in a relationship, maybe like her partner came before her.

Let’s say they, they immigrated from, from Latin America, and he is the breadwinner and has more language capability because maybe he has been working. And then you’ve got this woman, the partner that comes to, to join him. They have kids. She doesn’t speak the language. She stays at home, and then abuse starts occur- occurring.

And it’s like, what does this person do if they are financially dependent on this person? L- they depend on language, and maybe their immigration status isn’t the same as the person who is, is working here. So, and there’s like so much of a power dynamic there, where I f- imagine there’s so many women in similar situations, maybe not that exact situation, maybe just one of those or maybe more situations, more factors at play.

What, what do they do then?[00:26:00] 

Judy: Are all… Yes. Well, first and foremost, what we try to do, and it’s very hard. It’s, it’s funny that you bring that up ’cause I’m actually dealing with a client who, um, she works though. She, um, she does housekeeping, I guess, in a hotel or something. But they have two children, and she is

She’s just beside herself. She just doesn’t know what to do. And I tried to explain to her that, you know, “If you want, we can get you out of there. We can give you some financial help and get you in your own place so you can, you know, move forward and not have to be under that roof.” I, I’m not sure.

She’s, she’s just

She, she pushes back. Um, what she said– H-here’s what she feels. She feels that there’s something wrong with her. So she’s asking me to connect her, which I did, to, uh, mental health counseling, which is fine, ’cause we give domestic [00:27:00] violence counseling, um, and it’s non-clinical. So I did hook her up. She said, “Let me do this first.”

Right? And then– And I said, “Do you want me to get the children? ‘Cause the children are being exposed to this also.” So she said, “Let me do me first, and then we’ll do the children.” But she hasn’t made that decision yet to say, “I wanna sever ties. I wanna be able to do this.” It’s scary. She’s in a country. She’s limited English, okay?

She doesn’t know if she can actually make it on her own. But there are resources that would, you know, be able to help her, right? So it’s hard to get that information to them. Th-there’s still that… I d- I’m not sure what we would call it, if it’s that fear of going, you know, of that unknown. Um, I would imagine that’s, that’s what it would be, right?

So I have a, another client who’s here, who’s… Her status is [00:28:00] okay. I think that w-whatever it is she has to, every 10 years she goes in and they renews it or something like that. I’m not sure. I’m not too privy into what the statuses are all about. But she is living with a chiropractor here. Now she’s, she’s been abused plenty of times.

She forwarded a whole bunch of pictures to us where you can see the bruises, you know, the marks on her neck, all of that. Never once did she call the police. Never once. So this is what happened. They had an argument, and she got so upset and whatever it was, there was a, I don’t know, pocket knife or something on the table.

She grabbed that, and he commenced to start recording her Yeah. So guess what? He’s holding that over her head. He’s holding that over her head. This is [00:29:00] why it’s important, and if this, if this gets out to anybody out there, I don’t care who it is, if you’re suffering with a DV situation, the most important thing you can do is make a report.

Call the police. Even if you don’t make a report, your phone number is gonna be recorded, your address is gonna be recorded. Your phone number is there. They’re gonna know it was you who called. Because God forbid that this continues, you don’t make a report or a call to the police, you defend yourself and you maim or ill or kill this person, there’s nothing to help you.

There’s nothing to defend you. There’s nothing to defend that client for battered woman syndrome. Nothing

Erika: Wow. I, I wanna touch on what you just mentioned because I know that when we spoke previously, you had [00:30:00] mentioned not this situation, but something similar. But before I forget making this point, I wanted to say when we were talking in the beginning about funding and we were talking about how 90-something percent of that funding went directly to clients, it’s literally the situation we were just talking about, right?

Like, so the woman who needed to be… Who, who the goal is to get her rehoused and to support women in those situations. So I just wanted to make that quick connection. And then when we spoke, you had mentioned that sometimes people do not make reports, they don’t call, and then suddenly the tables are turned and they are the ones getting arrested for domestic violence.

And so what you’ve just described is one of those situations.

Judy: Yes. I’ve had three clients here in a suburb, Latino women, who have been arrested, um, for, um, assault or, you know, because they defended themselves. Three of them. [00:31:00] Um, thank goodness all of the cases were cleared without any repercussions to any of my clients, and that’s why it’s important to have a DV advocate stand next to you when you go through these, uh, situations.

But my point is lack of language, lack of being able to express yourself to tell what really happened, and you get officers who are not well-versed in what DV is all about to know that 99% of the time a woman or a man who becomes an abuser is because they’ve been victimized first. But we just don’t have those reports.

See what I’m saying? We don’t have those re- If we have those reports, then we can, we can ne- Well, you know, a case where fortunately this particular client did have reports. She had many reports. Her [00:32:00] psychological and emotional abuse took her to taking a weapon, going to look for him at his family’s house.

There were three people there. a SWAT team was called out. She was, subsequently charged with three counts of kidnapping and a gun charge. She was so distraught, she took that gun and pointed it at her head. When she pulled the trigger, the gun kicked, so she didn’t shoot herself in the head, but she took the gun and she shot, shot herself in the belly.

She was arrested on those charges. She was looking at at least 25 to life for those charges. But because there were DV reports, she was charged under battered woman syndrome 60.12, and she did three to six years. This client now, after all this time, she has remarried, she has a child. She just moved to Atlanta.

She bought a home. She’s doing really well.[00:33:00] 

Erika: Wow

So not all the time is that outcome like that, but it’s important for victims to know you need to make that report. That’s the one way you’re going to protect yourself. And I know that they say, “If I call, it’s gonna be worse.” Yeah, but if you don’t call, it’s gonna continue to get worse, right? Yeah. Wow. So, I mean, we’ve already touched on this, but one of the questions that I had for you is that in many Latino Hispanic households, there’s this cultural pressure around whether it’s, you know, whether it’s cultural or, or religious, but keeping things private, right? Like, we don’t talk about that, or you don’t tell people your, your, your problems.

And this has obviously really affected a lot of survivors. Um, why do you think it’s so important to have services like yours that are bilingual? I, I… You and I are speaking English right now, but I’ve heard you speak perfect Spanish as [00:34:00] well. So why is that so important?

Judy: Well, a lot of those things affect, number one, again, w- if we have to put culture in the mix, and then we’re gonna put religion in the mix, okay? So those things kinda go hand in hand, and it’s– With the Latina, population, we’ve been taught to try and hold the family together. Hold the family together.

At what cost? Hold the family together. So I could bet my bottom dollar that probably 95%, 95%, if it’s not higher, of Latino households at some point have suffered, um, DV, whether it’s the wife or the husband. They have. And it’s, it’s all about this cultural thing of keeping the family together. Um I don’t [00:35:00] know.

I, I, I just– I, I– sometimes I, I have to, I’m like, “Oh, really?” I have to think about that, and it’s just like, why, why would you stay? You’re being abused in so many ways. Well, number one, that’s, they probably love that person or did love them at one point, right? Because that is something that I do tell my clients.

“You’re gonna have good days and bad days.” “Well, what do you mean?” “Well, you’ll have good days and bad days. You know why? Because at some point in your life, you actually loved this person enough to either marry them and bear children for them. So yeah, you’ll have those days where you second-guess yourself.”

But at what cost? At what cost are you gonna do this? So with, with the Latina families, it’s the same thing. You– they tend to repeat situations all the time. Um, I had a client probably five years ago. We took care of the whole situation. She just called me last month, [00:36:00] and she’s going through the same thing with the same person So I don’t understand why. I, I, I mean, if you ask, I don’t think we’re gonna get a straight answer. It’s either gonna be, you know, “He supports me. I love him.” You know, the kids or, “His family is my support so I can work,” right? “They take care of the kids for me,” or something into that effect. I mean, what happens is they stay with it because it’s easier to stay with it than not because of all the things that you’re gonna lose if you walk away from it.

That make sense?

Erika: Yeah. Yeah. And from a, I guess, like more neuroscience perspective or from if we’re looking at the brain, right? The brain loves familiarity, so even if it’s familiarity that’s not good for you, it’s still familiar, and it’s harder to make a change than to stay where you’re, where you are. So Judy, let’s [00:37:00] say that somebody’s listening to our interview and they are maybe starting to question their own relationship right now.

Maybe they’re like, “Ooh, this is, this is kind of perking my ears up. Maybe there are some red flags here.” What are some early red flags that they should pay attention to?

Judy: Well, again, the, the first and the foremost is the isolation part of it. That, that is the big, that’s the big part of it. Um, when you, um, when they isolate you from friends, family, um, you know, “Your friend is not doing this,” or they’ll make up these story- “Your friend is really trying to kick it to me, you know?

And that’s your best friend?” You see what I’m saying? So they’ll make up these stories. Uh, red flags are that. Um, it, it becomes very– it’s subtle in a lot of ways. Um, “Why, why, why are you wearing that dress? Where are you going?” you know, at one point it probably was, “Oh, you look very nice.” And now it’s like they’ll question why you’re wearing that.

Where are you going? So [00:38:00] whatever it is that makes it sweet and loving and comfortable, the warning signs are the opposite of those things The warning signs are the opposite of those things, if, if that makes sense. So if anybody out there is listening and is going through even, even one of these, I mean, gaslighting is one of them, you know, where they kinda like, um, like I like to say, “”Te viran la tortilla,”” you know?

They turn that, they turn that omelet around, you know, make you the, you know, the perpetrator, the victim, the villain. Make you, um, you know, gaslighting is– humor is another way that they get around. “Oh, I was just kidding.” Really? So it’s important for, for victims to know that the two things you can’t take back is time and words spoken. So when, when they do these things, they, they do it on a, on a small scale, right? It’s on a small scale. And, and then, then it [00:39:00] gets to be where it’s constant. And now you’re, you’re second-guessing yourself. Really? You’re second-guessing yourself. “Well, maybe he’s right,” or, “Maybe she’s right. Maybe I did do something wrong and really didn’t see it.” It’s easy to do that. It’s easy to do that to people, especially when you’ve hammered them into thinking that they are not worthy, okay? There’s– You, you’ve taken away their identity. You’ve taken away their self-esteem. Because sometimes you’ll say– You ever hear somebody say, um, uh, if they want to, um, identify someone, right?

And they would say,and I’m using myself as an example. They would say, Yeah, that’s, that’s, um, Tito. That’s, that’s Judy’s husband.” Like he doesn’t have an identity. He’s my husband. That’s his identity. That make sense?

Erika: Yep

Judy: You see how that, see how that, um, plays into all of this?

He [00:40:00] is, he’s, Tito, no, he’s not Tito, he’s Judy’s husband. So it kinda like they take away your identity. They take away who you are, what you mean to yourself. So th- the red flags are there. You just gotta watch for them. Um, you know, they, they’re just… Sometimes they’re facetious and the, and the words cut, and they hurt, and sometimes you think, “Did I really hear that?”

And the worst thing is, is that sometimes when it gets to be those verbal arguments, you know, and then it escalates into, hmm, maybe a push here or, you know, yeah. No, it, it, it tends to escalate. And, and then we’re talking about physical abuse, you know. And, um, the arguments get to where they grab the phones and they break the phones or break something in the house.

You know, the next thing to break is you.

Erika: Mm-hmm.

Judy: So those are, you know, those are things that you, you gotta be mindful and [00:41:00] watch for that when, when those… And, and the worst thing is, is that they think that, “Well, let me not trigger him.” Really? Really. So you’re gonna walk on eggshells not to trigger this person so that that person doesn’t become this ogre, you know, treating you this badly, and this is what you’re gonna do because you don’t want to…

No. No. No, no, no. No. You have to take back your power and control because that’s what it’s all about. DV is all about power and control. If they come into– And then, and that’s the problem. When women or men decide to leave, that person is losing power and control, and that in a mind of someone who is, who knows what, narcissistic, uh, you know, mental health, drug abuse or alcohol abuse, and all those things, and that hits their mind, “No, they can’t have this.

This is not gonna happen,” [00:42:00] and they lash out. It’s terrible. It’s absolutely terrible. We’ve had too many homicides. We just had another one in the suburb where the man shot his wife. Come on. We can’t

Erika: Wow. One of the things I wrote down as you were speaking because I didn’t wanna forget, uh, why do abusers abuse? When I think about why somebody would control what you’re wearing, in my mind there’s a, at the core, there’s a big insecurity there. But it can also be g- just mental health, right? Like you mentioned, uh, abuse.

But where does this kind of, I guess, stem from in your experience?

Judy: Well, I, I think if, if, if we look back and we, and we think about it, it stems from the home. I mean, it really does. I worked for, um, an agency here, back in ’93 or ’97. It was, uh, Benita [00:43:00] Institute on Addiction. And what we did is we,600 women, and we did community samples on 150 of them. We did women in shelters, and we did women in methadone maintenance, and then we matched those to community partners. What we did is we had an instrument that we took those,clients from the time that they were very young in their home.

What do you remember about what the dynamics of your home? And the, the idea, the end result was looking to see what the correlation was to that childhood, abuse to adulthood and abuse and drug abuse and alcohol abuse and how that plays out. That, that was the whole spectrum of this study.

Erika: Makes sense

Judy: Yeah. So we had– I had, a client who was sexually abused by her brother and thought it was okay Thought it was okay.

So that went on. I- so you see what I’m saying? It’s just that [00:44:00] it’s what happens in the home when they’re young, and what’s ingrained in their mind, what they think is okay. So if you, if you, if you are watching, you know, your dad, your mom, or whatever, abuse a, a person, whether it’s a child, the mother or…

And that is an ongoing thing in the home, that’s all you see. That’s all you’re gonna– that’s what you’re gonna know. That’s what you’re gonna think is right. So I think a lot of it comes from that. A lot of it comes from that. Again, it could come from also mental health. You know, let’s factor in, you know, the abuses that, you know, alcohol and drug abuse.

That could be a big thing. But it’s just like, you know, it’s just about power and control. It’s just, I wanna have some kind of control. Maybe they didn’t have control of, of their lives, of their persons when they were growing up, and now all of a sudden they wanna find somebody and maintain that power and control.

It’s terrible. It is terrible to think that women or men, you know, would have to go through this and try to somehow [00:45:00] come out the other side a better person. That is not easy to do. It really isn’t. I, I have a, a, a client that I was dealing– I’ve been dealing with her since I started here, and, um, she just called me yesterday and she was, like, in a crisis.

She said in her building she could hear the man downstairs beating the woman. She said, “Judy,” she said, “I don’t understand.” She said, “I just think this…” Well, she went down and knocked on the door. The girl said, “Please, everything is okay.” You know, “Yada, yada. Are you sure? Are you sure?” She said, “Yes.” She said but she couldn’t overcome what she was feeling.

And I said to her, I said, “What you are feeling is the PTSD.” She’s severe PTSD. Um, “You’re, you’re feeling the PTSD.” And I said to her, “Remember what I’ve told you. Number one, you have to do the exercise and breathing and bringing yourself back from that,” okay? Because it brings all that– And like I said, she was severe DV and severe PTSD.

So, you have to bring it back. And I explained to her early on, [00:46:00] and to understand that your senses, your senses will trigger your DV PTSD. It will trigger it, whether it’s a smell, a sight, a sound, uh, a taste. Uh, something is, in those five senses, is gonna trigger it. So, you know, we talked and talked, and I got her to come down from that to understand a little bit about it because it’s– ’cause what happens is she’ll just escalate.

Escalate. I mean, she’s times where she’s been here with me, we go outside, and my coworkers thinks they s- need to call the police because she’s so loud and, and seems to be very aggressive, and they think it’s towards me, but it isn’t. It isn’t. It’s just that anxiety that’s taking over, that panic attack that’s taking over her while we have to go through this.

That’s why it’s important to have that responsibility to not re-traumatize people. I did a, a presentation yesterday and, [00:47:00] you know, and I t- let them know, “Please, if this, anything that I mention to you is gonna re-traumatize you or make you feel some kind of way, please just get up and leave the room.” This woman didn’t get up and leave the room, and she just fell apart at the end of my segment.

So you, you try not to. You really try not to. I, I just– It’s so complex, Erika. It’s so complex, and you have to navigate as an advocate for people in these situations. You have to a- you, you just have to be very, very conscientious of how you say what you say when you say it, because all those factors come in.

I mean I just– it’s sad. It’s really sad. When, when I think of some of the cases that have come through here, I mean, I’ve had success cases, don’t get me wrong, a lot of them. But when I think of a woman who I was trying to help who was pregnant, [00:48:00] and she was on probation, and we had to contact her probation officer ’cause she had police involvement and yada, yada, yada.

And, you know, it happens, and we got her probation officer, and then she just went off the handle, says, “I want nothing to do with GV. I want nothing to do with Judy.” I’m like, “Okay, I don’t, I don’t have a problem with that.” Six months later, her daughter’s four months old, and she’s standing in front of my office crying.

“I should have listened to you.” I said, “No worries. What’s wrong right now? Let’s do it.” He took the child. Wouldn’t give her back. So we went to court that day. Judge doesn’t know her from anybody. She says, “Okay, it’s Wednesday. Let him keep the baby till Sunday. He’ll bring you the baby back on Sunday. We’ll get you a date to come into court.”

Erika: Sunday never came for her. They found her dead in her bed You, I mean, [00:49:00] as an advocate, you think, “Was there anything else I could do? Was there anything else I can do?” No, there wasn’t. There wasn’t. The client had a, you know, substance abuse problem, okay? That’s one of the things. But even though, you know, was there anything else I can do? I couldn’t do anything else Yeah. Well, I’ve just gotta thank you for the work you do because it is very heavy, and I’m sure it’s, it’s hard to leave the work in the office and not think about it when you’re, when you’re at home. Obviously, you need to have a passion for this to, to do it. So thank you so much for that. We’re getting towards the end of time, so I wanna turn it over to you.

Is there anything I didn’t ask you that you want the listeners to know or anything, any final words that you want to leave with the listeners? 

Judy: one of the things that I think is important is that, you know, [00:50:00] bilingual and culturally relevant services are really, really critical. They’re important when supporting survivors of domestic violence because survivors are most likely to seek help, trust providers, and participate in services and remain engaged when they feel understood, respected, and safe.

Language access alone is really not enough, okay? Services must also recognize the cultural experiences, the values, the feels, and the barriers that shape a survivor’s situation. It’s really, really important to put all those things together to help the survivors to do what it is. It’s just our ultimate goal is to stabilize that survivor, whether it’s a male or female, stabilize them and give them the tools that they need necessary so that they can go on and find that healing process that comes along, and it is very long.

It’s a long process, depending on [00:51:00] how severe that DV is. You know, it’s, it, it really, really is They have to. And, and I think a lot of times, um, that kinda helps it, um… I don’t, I don’t know. I just– Being able to walk the walk and talk the talk with folks, whether they’re Hispanic, African American, Muslim community, the immigrants from, um, Latino countries, to be able to have that empathy, number one, and to let them know that you understand.

That’s why trauma-informed care is really important. And self-care is important, too, because you can’t take care of somebody if you’re not taking care of yourself. So I think that communication needs to be improved. Survivors need to clearly understand their rights, safety planning options, legal processes, shelter rules, and available resources.

Miscommunication can place a survivor at grace- great risk. [00:52:00] Um, again, building that trust with them is very, very important because the fear of the system or authority figures being able to speak. I mean, they don’t wanna go and make a police report because they think they’re gonna be arrested because of their status.

No, that’s not gonna happen. That’s why it’s important to have an advocate stand next to you ’cause this is what we’re here for. You see what I’m saying? So that’s really, really important. So reducing the, um, isolation. The survivors with limited, um, English proficiency are often isolated by their abusers, and we know why, right?

We know why. Bilingual services help survivors reconnect with support systems and regain their independence. So that’s important that we have that for that population. It really is important. So We’re stuck right now because of the administration with the immigration-related fears and all that other stuff.

So navigating that, and you have agencies that kinda [00:53:00] sorta, but not kinda sorta. So yeah, they’re, they can help, but it’s just very, very limited in what they can do. That’s another thing. So I don’t know if, you know, six months down the line maybe we’ll have something that’s, um, a little bit better in terms of processing and, um, understanding what the status is and how we navigate that system.

Erika: But unfortunately, right now we’re kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place Definitely. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, sharing what you have shared with us today, for the work that you’ve been doing. It’s, it’s literally your entire life dedicated to supporting others, and that’s very admire- admirable. We will link your website and contact info down below in case anybody wants to invite you to their podcast or contribute in any way or any…

get involved with this, um, as well as, yeah, who knows? Maybe somebody really needed this podcast episode and may

Judy: I hope so.

Erika: soon.

Judy: I hope so. So if we [00:54:00] reach one person, remember, remember, you have to make that report. Whether it’s just that phone call, the police come out and you say, “No, everything is okay,” but there’s a report. There is a track. Yes. There’s something to track. Thank you, Erika. Thank you for the opportunity. Um, I, um, know that you’re on the West Coast.

I’ve heard you guys got fires now, right? Starting up?

Erika: Yes. Luckily not in my area, but unfortunately, yes, fires have been a big thing at, for us here on the West Coast lately

Judy: Well, we’re still waiting for Summer. It hasn’t arrived yet

Erika: It’s, it’s raining today. I’m like, “What in the world?” It’s usually 90, 100 degrees where I live, but today it’s gloomy and raining, so

Judy: All right. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity, um, and maybe we’ll speak soon again.

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