Financial trauma is tricky – it’s a nuanced conversation that plays a part in our everyday lives. And that’s because money touches every part of our lives. Our families, businesses, and even we ourselves depend on money to a certain extent. So when you get that guilty feeling in your stomach that makes you refuse to look at your bank statements, it can feel overwhelming. That’s why we called in a professional.

Alejandra Rojas is an entrepreneur, Forbes contributor, writer, and founder of Brown Way To Money, a financial mentoring platform that helps women overcome financial trauma and improve their relationship with money. She is also the host of the Brown Way to Money Podcast. Alejandra provides a unique blend of financial expertise and trauma-informed coaching, empowering women of color to break free from limiting beliefs and create financial abundance. She delves into the emotional and psychological roots of money problems, helping women heal from past experiences and develop a healthier, empowered relationship with their finances. 

In this week’s episode, we’re healing our financial trauma and talking about why Latinas struggle with money. It’s time to break free of our financial trauma and take our power back. Alejandra is a trauma-informed money expert, so she knows exactly how to navigate the nuances of our financial trauma within Black and Brown communities. So if you’ve been wanting to let go of your guilt and anxiety about money, tune in to this week’s episode to learn more!

Follow Alejandra on:

Website: https://brownwaytomoney.com   

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alejandrar2019/

IG: @alejandrarojas.money

The Money Experience Survey (open until December 19th): www.brownwaytomoney.com/survey

Alejandra’s TEDx Talk, “3 Ways People Relate to Money” https://youtu.be/-Wy9IhVnkWY?si=oyc8TsuX2zNCCJD1 

Follow Erika on:
Instagram @‌theerikacruz
TikTok @‌theerikacruz
LinkedIn

Website:
http://www.theerikacruz.com

How to work with Erika:

Join the waitlist for the Courage Driven Latina program here!

Join the waitlist for the Magnetic Mastermind here!

Podcast production for this episode was provided by CCST, an Afro-Latina-owned boutique podcast production and copywriting studio. 

Episode Transcript:

Alejandra: Alejandra, welcome to Ana Revolution. How are you? Welcome to the show. Thank you so much. I’m very happy to be here and to be having this conversation with you, Erika. 

Erika: Yeah, I’m excited as well. I’m excited to speak to you about all things money, all things financial trauma, which is something our community definitely struggles with.

But before we get into that, can you share just a quick summary of your story? How did you become the founder of Brown Way to Money, which is such a cool name, and what inspired you to turn your personal journey into a financial platform for other people? 

Alejandra: Yes, so. Listen, there is a long, long story about that.

It’s a whole to talk about that. I can send you the link, but So a story is send me the link and 

Erika: we’ll put it in the show notes. Yes. So that way people can watch that. 

Alejandra: Yes. Because you know, I have always been a finance girl. Both of my parents are accountants. Um. [00:03:00] And it was kind of like the expected way, but more than the expected.

It was like, it really, really got me to understand numbers and I was the type of little girl that I would sit on my dad’s desk and do the invoices and the calculator and all of that, right? So naturally I went into a high school that prepared me as a bookkeeper before even I graduated, and then in a, for college.

You know, major in finances, but international banking and finances, just to understand the, like how this money thing works, right? So it was like a natural transition since I was very little. But the thing is that I thought I was getting ready to understand money in all aspects of money, like to really get the money game.

It didn’t happen like that. When I was working as a finance manager in DC, Washington, dc I was earning so much money, [00:04:00] a lot of money, but then at the same time, I faced burned out and money burned out. I was. Arriving home every night, crying to sleep, vomiting. I didn’t know what I was doing. It was like two people, right?

And the same body. My morning job, like nine to five. Perfect. Oh yes. This is the budget. This is what we’re gonna do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All my personal life. I was accumulating such a high amount of debt because I wasn’t mindful, I wasn’t intentional. I didn’t know my relationship to money. I didn’t know why money made me feel like so out of place.

Why having that level of success made me feel like my whole family will hate me forever. And that was the moment that clicked for me because every like. Honestly, when I say this, I’m, I’m being true, true to the, the feeling that I had when I was six years old. I [00:05:00] wanted to be the finance girl. I wanted to be the, the person in charge of money.

So that moment facing that burned out to me was like, well, this was your dream, and your dream is literally taking health and life away from you. Why? And it really put things on perspective. And I started this journey into why this happens. Oh, psychology of money. Oh, financial trauma. Oh, relationship to money.

Why Nobody talk to me about this in the 10 years of career that I spend, you know, researching and understanding money. So I took, you know, and my hands, I was like. People need to know about this and know everybody. But we as a Latinas and personally as a black Latina, it is my mission to, now that I have gone through, because I really study this and I have gone through it, is my mission to put it out there and to really tell, these other.[00:06:00] 

Women that are experiencing the same. This is not a you problem. This is not that. Your lack of, education or understanding this is a bigger picture and it’s a lot of other things that goes into the equation. So that’s how my story led me to be here today, really doing what I’m doing. 

Erika: This is so fascinating because you grew up around numbers.

You grew up around understanding probably balance sheets and all the things that. All my friends who are entrepreneurs, we do not like the bookkeeping side of it. But you grew up with, I love it. No, almost, you know, like you said, sending the invoices when you were a kid, but what this demonstrates is that knowing isn’t enough.

Right? You knew all of you, you knew how money worked, but it sounds like what was really the thing that needed to, the thing that was inviting you to work on was the, the money trauma. Right? Which is something that. [00:07:00] Affected affecting our entire community. So you are a certified trauma of money practitioner.

I didn’t even know that that was a thing. I was like, how cool is that? And now that you’ve shared your background, it makes so much sense. So can you share with us what is financial trauma and how does it show up in the lives of our community? Right. Yeah. Black and brown community or 

As a black Latina, so either the Latino latina community and in entrepreneurs. So yeah, let’s start with just the Okay. Latino community. Yeah. And then I’ll ask the follow up about entrepreneurs. 

Alejandra: Yes. So the concept of financial trauma is this feeling of a negative emotion, this feeling of being ashamed of guilt of.

Your nervous system activating because of money. We think about trauma, and this is a fairly you know, new concept that psychology books, they’re only just [00:08:00] opening a little part of their book to understand financial trauma. And I am currently doing until the 19th of December, a survey to understand how women of color, black, brown, and Latin.

Really experience money because we don’t have enough evidence to push these books to say, Hey, it is not about financial literacy. It’s not about knowing what the rules are. It’s about how we experience the feeling of. Being ashamed because I want more, or the feeling of, of that guilt that happens when I decide to buy myself something and not to somebody else in my family, or I decide to, you know what?

Give. Somebody that, I dunno, random person X amount of money, but I didn’t pay the rent of my cousin that was, calling me last month because of that. Like all of these emotional responses to money that are impacting you [00:09:00] in a negative way that is financial trauma. And that financial trauma is not only about the individual, it comes.

Because of the system. So if you had a bad interaction with the system, if you couldn’t open a bank account, if they reject you, your loan, if the mortgage didn’t go through, if all of these things that happen that affects you, that is a systematic, financial trauma. But what I. Interesting within our community is the generation of financial trauma as a Latinas, are all around the world because I have done the research and I have, clients and, and mentees all around the world.

Latinas, black women. Have a huge amount of financial trauma because of the way that we grew up, because of the way that we understood [00:10:00] money from our parents and caregivers. So. Maybe that experience that created that negative, uh, emotion with money. It didn’t happen to you directly, but it happened to your parents, or it happened to somebody very, very close to you that had that influence of, you know, shape you on the way that you grew up.

And that is how we live with money. Now, that’s, those are the fears that we have with money. Those are the expectations that we have with money. And that is just mind blowing to me. ’cause it is not like a normal PTSD. Which is what has been recognized so far, financial PTSD, something happened to you and you continue remembering that it is not just that, it is the whole history that is really shaping the way that we are showing up today.

So that is in general. Now [00:11:00] when you enter the entrepreneurial world, it’s another level of how it shows up. It shows up. the most common that I see is under. Under earning undervalue yourself. And it is, it’s a combination of both things. It’s a combination of lack of an strategic view of a business because we are just starting a business side, but the financial trauma like kind of like gets a waves into those lack of a strategy because the financial trauma on entrepreneurship, is really showing like, well.

Nobody’s gonna pay that because I couldn’t pay that. Right. Nobody is going to be able to, like who is going to pay for, and, and I’m sure there is a lot of coaches here, but nobody’s gonna pay for that coaching program because who is gonna pay $10,000 for a coaching? But when it’s really your financial trauma token is I [00:12:00] couldn’t pay that.

Coaching nobody around me that I know can pay that coaching so far. So the projection, it just stays there. Financial trauma is something so tricky to understand because it is, um. There are just seconds. Is that feeling, the first feeling that you feel when you think about money, when you want to save your prices, when you have to set your prices, is that kind of like the five seconds that you have between your emotional brain just jumping in and then urological brain?

Because money is very logical. Urological brain saying, well. There is no marker for that, so I must be right. But if you really quiet down and break it down to the why are you coming to this conclusion, you understand it is a trauma response. It’s a protection mechanism. It’s a fear of, [00:13:00] understanding this relationship to money and how that will help you to build a better business.

Erika: I was just coaching somebody before getting on our podcast interview. I was just coaching somebody in my mastermind who showed up to the call, convinced that her prices were way too high and that nobody was going to pay that, and it was really just her own. Projections. So a hundred percent. And I love that what you’re saying is that it’s, it’s very subtle and because it’s so subtle, we probably are living with it our whole lives and just going unaware of it because even when you gave the examples of deciding to buy something for yourself, right now, it’s, you know, the.

Right at the time of recording this, it’s right after the holiday season, so there’s a lot of Black Friday specialists, cyber Monday specials, and I went to go order my mascara and I, I remember thinking, oh man, Sephora has this sale. I should probably call my mom to see what she wants because if she sees the package show up and I didn’t think about her, she’s going to get mad [00:14:00] at me.

Right. So like almost this, even just the way that we think about. About money as Latinas. Like we’re constantly thinking about family members. You’re, the example you gave was, oh, the cousin who, you know, asked for help with rent, and there’s, there’s a lot of shame around money. And so I’m wondering what are some of the common, money wounds or limiting beliefs that you see?

You’ve already given us some great examples, but what are some of those limiting beliefs that you see in black and brown women, and how do we be, how, like what are the steps to healing those? What do we do? 

Alejandra: So when it comes to the earning side, which is huge, like we have a huge gap, uh, with the counterpart, the limiting beliefs when it comes to that side is more than an limiting beliefs.

I want to rephrase this because it’s not just a belief, it’s literally your behavior that is pushing you to continue believing that. is that number one? You are not yet in a position to be asking for [00:15:00] that, that you want to be asking. And that is when we come with a, I just need the next certification, I just need the next master degree.

Or, and, and, and then you look back and this is a person that has five different master’s degrees and one PhD and she still are not raising her prices. so that. Is a huge one for Latinas, especially for Latinas. We have an educational pro, like we’re so educated. We we’re like really, really educated. but we.

have this barrier to transform education into business that we charge for. And that, again, is, is part of that, that financial trauma, how you, it shows up. The other one that I see in the, on the earning side a lot is being comfortable with your prices. With [00:16:00] your pricing. So. Latinas are on average.

Latinas and black and brown in general are on average making $50,000 per year on average for all the businesses. Thus on the recent survey of poverty line is way lower than the poverty line. So right now we are thinking about 150,000 being, okay, income to live in 2025. society. 50,000 is not much, but the average of our businesses make that when you break it down.

Why is, why is the reason behind that? And it is not only about expenses, is not about, but offers is about standing behind your pricing and understanding how that pricing affects you and your own wants.

 maybe this [00:17:00] is like a comparison that you can have if this airs on during the holiday season, you can have with your family, understanding how people that have a traditional job think about money and how you think about money because it’s completely different as an entrepreneur and, and really see what things trigger you.

’cause that is the best mirror to understand all of the limiting. Let’s call it limiting beliefs, right? Understand what triggers you and how you react to what other people are saying. So when I say Latinas are having a pricing problem, I want you to listen to your body and how that sits with you. Where do you feel that reaction?

And that is the first thing that you can start to turn it around to heal it, to work on it, right? We don’t want to start with financial trauma from somebody else’s [00:18:00] experience. And this is like if you take one thing from all of these podcasts, understand that the experience that you’re having with money is your unique experience and is valid, and nobody can take that away from you.

So. As I, I’m telling all of these examples. What I want you to do is to pay attention to the first thought that goes after limiting beliefs. The first limiting belief that you have will jump to your head. It’s like, oh, I probably should be doing that, but I don’t want to, or I probably should be doing that.

but what about if my friend says it’s too expensive? What about if nobody. What about if nobody buys, to your point of your, your coaching just before this, she was, you said she was convinced that her prices are too high. What are the evidence? And that’s, that is my kind of like. Two steps towards [00:19:00] healing the wound.

Show me the evidence, and I don’t want an evidence of five, six clients that reject you. I want a sample that it can be trusted, meaning that from 200 calls you receive hundred and 90 rejections and 10 maybes. That is a sizable. Sample that I can have to say, okay, we need to revise your prices. [00:20:00] [00:21:00] [00:22:00] But if it is after five people that you have talked and you feel that.

They, you know, the uncomfortable feeling of being rejected and you want to hide and your mind takes you back to that moment in high school when somebody rejected you and you wanted to hide. And even, even before that when you did something and you remember the same feeling. ’cause this is the thing, Erica, financial trauma is created.

Science [00:23:00] says and research, have it really study that. It starts around seven years old. I have seen it with my own daughter that it starts way earlier than that how they should. so your. Really talking to your brain in levels of five, six years old kind of thing, right? You cannot expect this to be a logical thing.

You can expect it to be, I don’t know why I’m feeling like this, but I’m just gonna. Go to my safe place, go to my lower prices, go to not offering, go to not looking at my bank account. Go to swapping that credit card. Can we talk 

Erika: about that? Can we talk about this avoidance, right? Because what? What happens with.

My clients because I’ve seen it over and over because I helped them get started. So they’ve never really done this before. They’ll post once and they’re like, oh my gosh, I didn’t have five people come into my inbox, so nobody wants this. Yeah. And they go to these extremes, [00:24:00] but to your point, then they start hiding.

But, financial avoidance is a huge thing, whether it’s entrepreneurship or just individuals working a nine to five or working a, a, a normal job or contractors. But, um. Or contract jobs, sorry, but the, the act of not wanting to check your bank account and different things like that. What, what would you say about this avoidance?

Because it’s such a common thing that occurs, but I think also with Latino culture, we avoid a lot, right? We avoid emotions, we avoid vulnerability, and it sounds like money’s just one of those things. Yeah. That’s a byproduct of avoidance. 

Alejandra: Yeah. So. The interesting thing with financial avoidance is that it has to be kind of like that thing that you start paying attention.

I want you to imagine that if you have been avoiding to water your plants for so long, those plants need [00:25:00] water. Not the whole bucket at once, but it just needs kind of like. Love and process with that same. Same happens with financial avoidance. If I have an entrepreneur who has been avoiding their bank accounts, what I would do is to set up a two minutes reminder.

Every day on go and check that transaction. Go and check that one thing, one thing that excites you in your bank account, and then progressively start getting into the topic. Financial avoidance happens because there is fear involved, sothe reaction to the fear is to avoid it. It’s just normal, right?

You don’t wanna be dead. But that thing that, like, you don’t wanna be killed by that, threat, that whatever you’re doing is now sending signals to your brain. That is why [00:26:00] you’re hiding. Why? Just think about at two years old, something scares you. You come right behind mama. That’s what your, that’s what your brain is doing.

Like I’m avoiding to do that because I don’t have to get there. The only way, and again, think about that two years old, the only way that you get at two years old out of be hiding is with a nice little toy, little by little. So, oh, you wanna see this? Okay. Oh, you wanna see that? And every day, that’s what we wanna do.

Now, what happens with entrepreneurs is that, and it’s gonna sound harsh, but this is literally how I talk to my clients and mentees. If you want your business to work, I cannot go around the, you know, the sidelines with you. You know that having a business represents a risk. So everything that you [00:27:00] do is gonna send threat signals to your brain.

Everything, literally, like is, is the Instagram post, is the pitch to whatever. Like I’m a Forbes columnist. It took me one year of pitching and hearing nothing, like one year of reaching to an inbox that. Didn’t replied. Okay, we got it. Nothing that is scary, but you as an entrepreneur. You have a mission in mind and you have an end goal.

I’m part of the Brown framework that I work for, financial independence. That includes financial trauma. The first thing is what is your big vision? And it is for this reason. If you don’t have a big vision that you can come back to and that pushes you forward, you’re gonna always be walking on the sidelines with your brain, trying to make commitments, little commitments to letting to let.

That is step that you know you have to take move forward, and that is so slow. [00:28:00] So as an entrepreneur, what I want you to do is to be the adult in that conversation that you’re having with your brain, which is your child right now. So be the adult and say, okay, this is the goal that we have. If we want to make a seven figure business in 2026, you cannot get there if you don’t know where you are.

And how do you fix The problem of not knowing where you are is by looking at your bank accounts check. You do it. How? What else do you need to get there? Well, I also. Strategic plan. Okay? You look at your bank account, what else do you need? And so that’s what you have to do in this case spec Specifically for entrepreneurs, it is different with nine to five because, because financial avoidance comes when it goes through the expenditure size and not the income.

Erika: Right? But for 

Alejandra: entrepreneurs is is all the other way around. 

Erika: Yes, definitely. So thank you for sharing [00:29:00] that. And, speaking about you being a Forbes columnist, I’ve seen some of your recent, your, your post of your recent articles. Yeah. And one of ’em was about, how Latinas are the group that’s starting.

More, they’re becoming entrepreneurs bigger, faster, at a faster rate than any other group. and also then investors are betting big on Latina founders. So I’m curious, what, what do you think they’re looking for and what can founders do to prepare for this kind of opportunity? Because I think they’re.

Investors are like finally seeing, oh wait, one, they’re actually really good entrepreneurs. Two, they’re starting businesses at faster rates than in any other group. So for people who are, for Latinas who are entrepreneurs, what would you suggest? 

Alejandra: Yes. I also will send you this link. They, I have four, VCs, no, three VCs and one angel investors.

They’re both, they’re most, most of them, they’re Latinas, investing in Latinas. so you can hear it from them. I’m not a vc, but I [00:30:00] can tell you what we have prepared is. Investors are looking Latinas that prove that they wanna run their business. And that’s in a nutshell, what they have all say. I want you to show me with receipts that you have a skin on the game, that you have a viable business.

Because of course, it’s a, is an investor, they want to see how their money, they’re gonna get back to them with that return. But more than anything. They wanna see that founders that believe on what they are doing and that they are capable of putting their voice out there and fight for that mission. So I had on that conversation, one of the.

VCs, Ashley is, she is doing a amazing, she was one of the founders, not founders, investor, for, Ellevest when [00:31:00] Ellevest used to be the platform for women to start investing. And what she said was really touching to me because I asked her, you know. As the world is pushing, trying to push back into being proud and voice your roots as a Latina, like we, we kind of have this, do I speak out loud about being a Latina when I have a business and or do I not because I can push investors back or not.

I asked her that question and what she said was like, there is. Only one way for me to understand if you’re gonna go through this or not, and the way is that you show me who you are a hundred percent, and you cannot separate who you are from your business. You [00:32:00] need to infuse them, and you need to speak everywhere about it.

And funny enough now that,I’m thinking about to connect this with financial trauma. One of the ways that financial trauma shows in Latinas that is not related to money specifically is that we stay silent all the time.

And, I don’t know if you know, Hadi with her new book of No More, we were talking about this because it is really, really scary to see how much money we are living on the table. Yeah. Because of that silence. 

Erika: Yes, definitely. And this, um, a lot of my clients that are in my program, courage Driven Latina, are having, um, negotiation conversations.

So this for people, I know we’ve been talking a lot about entrepreneurs, but for the individuals that are in nine to fives, the way that this shows [00:33:00] up is for annual reviews, just kind of hoping that they don’t get fired instead of coming to the annual review with like, Hey, here’s everything I’ve worked on.

Here’s what I actually have a, client who’s a salary negotiation coach. She was on the podcast a few episodes ago. but she supports her clients with seeing, okay, well what is it that the average engineer in California is getting paid? If, if that’s your current role. So like really looking at the statistics, what is the average of the person that has your level of experience for your role getting paid and looking at that, but also looking at your.

Progress within the company. What is it that you, what are the wins that you’re documenting? And I think this all really comes down to us for, in financial trauma as you just described. We wanna like, we just wanna stay quiet, but it’s in the ability to sell ourselves. And that’s one of the big things I’ve been talking about a lot lately.

And I think when [00:34:00] Latinas think of sales, they’re like, uh, but it’s like, no, we have to sell ourselves in an interview. We have to sell ourselves. On dates, we have to sell ourselves with our personal brand, with our content, with our offers. Like being able to sell yourself is one of the, it doesn’t mean that you’re conceited, it doesn’t mean any of that.

It means you’re able to see the worthiness that you are and show up as that. And that’s really what I think we’re going to be transitioning into. But, um, do you have anything else to share about the investors? 

Alejandra: No, I, I just wanted to, double deep on just something that you said, because you said we have to show what we are worth and one of the tricks that I have for.

Bypassing that financial trauma that can get stuck in there is that, don’t show me what you’re worth, your worthless baby. Show me what your serviceswhat the employment that you are doing right now, like the activities are worth to [00:35:00] that company. Totally show that to them. Yes, I don’t, I I don’t care.

What is your name? I don’t care anything. Just put it on the paper and say, X person is doing this and that and that, and that is the value. Here you go. These are the answers. 

Erika: Love that. Love that, um, with selling ourselves. Yeah. Another one that I saw of your, of your articles were about personal brands, which is something I’ve been talking a lot about.

And I feel like personal branding is selling yourself. So our personal. Brands this new path to financial stability for women, and whether they are entrepreneurs or not entrepreneurs, I think everybody has a personal brand. It’s about are you being intentional with it? Are you curating it in the way that you want?

So what is your take on, on personal branding? 

Alejandra: I am, I am literally just writing an article about that almost with that title. Um, [00:36:00] so I do think personal brand is. Component of financial independence and financial stability on 2020. Three main reasons for entrepreneurs because we are now living on an AI floated world where people, yes, ride, where people do not want to engage with a bot anymore, at least not in the first.

Steps of the funnel where they are building your trust, like your personal brand is literally your voice. You communicating what you are about, whether that is through your business, through your speaking engagements, through everything that you do so that a AI is one point. Number two, we are seeing a change on the behavior of the consumer.

Because, so like, especially if you are targeting women, women are being [00:37:00] more driven to relativity, right? We want to understand more because now there is so much content, we don’t want to be educated anymore. We want you to tell me your experience and if you follow and pay attention, uh, publications like Business Insider, that I also do a not.

How to or no, it’s all about stories. It’s all about I am doing this, I am doing that. I’m sure like your experience with.

Kind of like where we are now, inclining to so personal brand is going to be huge. Your experience, what you are about to as well. And number three, why I think, uh, is going to be a key component for financial stability is because the mobility that we are seeing between businesses, we are seeing a lot of people getting laid off.

We are seeing a lot of people starting up businesses. The only asset really, [00:38:00] and this is an asset. I want you to understand your personal brand as that intangible asset that you will carry, whether that is today, to an specific job, to five years, 10 years later to different specific stages so that asset is going to become part of your negotiation.

And I did have on one on that article with personal brand with Ani. Ani is a LinkedIn influencer. She has 400,000 followers on LinkedIn and she. Still works as a recruiter. So she has a nine to five job. She has no desire to become a content creator or to become an entrepreneur. She’s fine with her job.

The reasons why she has built that personal brand is because she realized she had a voice as a recruiter, and that voice helped her. And help her company because more people are applying, understanding that, oh, that’s so [00:39:00] cool to work for that company that allows you to be your whole self. So it is not about only entrepreneurs, it’s about everybody.

I do think as a women of color, we are way overdue of having a personal brand. If you wanna build. kind of like a narrative around what it matters to you that is your asset and how you protect what matters to you. 

Erika: I couldn’t agree with you more, especially because your personal brand is something that.

No company can take away from you. Right? So whether you are looking to start a business or not, with the rise of ai, there’s layoffs. Yeah. And there are restructuring, happening in, in different companies. And having a personal brand makes the difference between are you going to have people in your inbox with opportunities or are you just going to be submitting and submitting resumes?

So personally, I think everybody needs a [00:40:00] personal brand. That’s how I started my business. I started. Posting content on TikTok and then accidentally blew up. And then people were like, Hey, do you offer coaching? And I was like, what’s coaching? So it really was like first the personal brand and then the business was a natural thing that happened, that happened after the fact.

But yes, I love everything that, that you’re sharing. Um, is there anything that I have not asked you that you wanna share with us? 

Alejandra: I. We have covered a lot. One, one of the things, and it depends how, when this podcast is gonna air, but if it is before the holidays, one of the things that, we can all do to do that, to lower the financial trauma is.

Be curious about your conversations during these holidays. Holiday season is a season where most of us get triggered because it is gifting season because there is all the family here, like you name it, all the reasons there. But [00:41:00] holiday season is like this kind of weird thing, take. That moment to understand what you need to work on so that you can include that into your strategic plan for your business in 2026.

Now, if this episode airs after that, that is never too late. It will happen before. Yeah. Okay. It’ll be very relevant. Yeah. Okay. Okay. 

Erika: I love that. And can you also talk about just like the pressure of the financial pressure of buying people gifts. Um, I know ’cause that’s something that, you know, like, oh, then I have to buy it for all the ts, you know, like that people pleasing that can come up with money.

Alejandra: Yeah. Um, listen, I, and, and we can do a whole episode about that, but to the pressure of.

Uh, during the holiday season, I really would love for. [00:42:00] Us as a Latinas to understand that when we are pressing the give more button, it doesn’t duplicate. It’s just one button and you either give from your a hundred percent and you start giving 20% to this, 20% to that and 20% to the other one, or you keep more to yourself.

And that is not only not talking only about money, it’s about energy and it’s about mental capacity. So. For the holiday seasons, if you feel any kind of pressure, remember that every time that you feel that pressure is because you’re pushing that button of a hundred percent and it started to give it away.

And that moment I want your mind to remember who do you want to give that 20%, 10% or whatever is the percentage that you’re giving away. You want to give that percentage to your TIA that you’re just making it because you know your mom said that you should. You want to give that 20% to yourself to be in a better [00:43:00] position in 2026 to start that idea that you said that you were going to star.

Always think about this and prepare yourself emotionally and even write a conversation and how you’re gonna. Tackle that conversation with your mom, with your aunt, or whatever. How I did it when I started, because yes, even when you have all the studies and finances, the T say, oh, you didn’t buy me a gift.

And then you feel like, oh, I didn’t buy, or whatever. How I started was to write down my conversations. I know that my Thea ex is going to say something about that. So when she does, how would I like to respond? And I will write it down. And then I will res and rehearse with my brother, say, okay, you are the Thea.

You are gonna tell me. And then I will feel the change on my nervous system response. So when the moment [00:44:00] actually came to be, I was like, yeah, I’m, I’m just not giving gifts anymore. Now in my family, even that we have, almost two years old, we have. A set of rules, during Christmas. So we have a 20 euro now that we are in amda, a 20 Euro budget for a family to buy a gift or an experience.

What is the important thing for our Christmas to be together? And then when my mom is here, because she really wants gifts. She needs to adjust to our rules. So there is a 20 euro budget for us to do something together or to buy something for us. we can add to that 20 euro, 10 euro, or 20 more. But that’s about it.

So once you get clear, set out your rules and let people know that those are your rules. Sit with it because it is okay not to give on, on that specific way that they want you to [00:45:00] give. 

Erika: I love it. Yeah, I love it. Like you’re pretty much saying make the decision ahead of time, practice embodying that decision.

Alejandra: Yes. Rather 

Erika: than in that moment trying to, to decide which in that moment it’s not gonna happen. I’m always going to give to people pleasing. Yeah. We’re never gonna hold up our, our boundaries, so I love that.What would you say to the ED listening right now that feels shame about her debt or maybe her past financial decisions, and what do you think is the first step towards releasing that shame? Yes. 

Alejandra: Um, shame is huge. And here’s the thing. If I ask you to go back to this morning and put a red shirt instead of a black shirt, can you.

You cannot, you cannot change that 

Erika: no matter how hard I think about it. Right? No matter how hard I shame myself, I can’t. 

Alejandra: Yeah. So there is, there is no point about that.

Erika: there is. 

Alejandra: [00:46:00] No way that you can change that because you cannot change that. What we can focus on is on what can you do now and coming back to the financial, uh, avoidance, that is why it’s so important to know where you stand because you cannot change what has happened, but you can change how that is going to play out in the future.

So shame, it’s, um. Society made feeling is not a natural mate. Natural mate is fear to keep you alive. Natural made is hungriness For you to stand up and go and eat that is like your body needs. That shame is created by society to keep you in your quote unquote place that was created when society was getting into communities so that we understood who belongs to where.

And shame is passed from [00:47:00] parents to kids to control their behavior. It’s easier to control at two years old saying, oh, you see how you are doing these things? You gotta stop doing that because it doesn’t look good instead of dealing with the behavior. So understand that this is not real to your safety.

And that you cannot do anything to change what has happened. But what you can do is to start today and see how you’re gonna tackle it. So in five years from now, when you come back to that, that thing that is, causing you to, you know, look at it and, and, and feeling that shame, you are in a different position.

Erika: Beautiful. I love how you described shame, especially around how it’s traditionally been used. I think even from not, not to get religious here, right, but like even a lot of religious organizations used it to control people. and I’m not saying religion’s bad or anything, I’m just saying some. People that were in power wanted to [00:48:00] use that like, and shame is so embedded in Catholicism or to your point with parenting.

’cause it’s an easy way instead of dealing with the action. So I love how you described that. Well this has been such a great interview. Um, I mean, I was excited to interview you, but I didn’t realize how in alignment we were going to be from the personal branding to the entrepreneurship to all of the different things.

So thank you so much for coming on. People are definitely going to wanna connect with you. So what is the best way to do that? Where can people find you? 

Alejandra: Well, thank you for having me and you can find me nowadays on LinkedIn most of the time. if you look Alejandra Rojas, I will send you the link as well, or.

Come to Instagram, send you the link as well, either those two ways and start getting in contact, start, you know, interacting with our content. if you hear this interview before we close the survey on how women of color are experiencing money. Please do take the survey that this is going to be a groundbreaking [00:49:00] research for the industry.

It is the first time that somebody takes the time to understand how we literally experience money. So your voice is very needed. When’s the 

Erika: last day? 

Alejandra: December 19th. 

Erika: Okay. Yeah, so if you don’t mind sending me the, the links, I think we may have your Instagram and your LinkedIn, but still send it just in case, and my podcast producer can put everything in the show notes.

That way people can directly go to the links there. Perfect. Great. Well, for those of you listening, if you took, I mean, I know you took so many things away from this conversation, but take your favorite thing from this conversation and be sure to tag both Alejandra and myself because we love to see what it is that stood out to you from this incredible, and.

Insightful conversation. Alejandra, thank you so much. I know it is late your time. I appreciate it. Um, if I would’ve known, I would’ve suggested a way earlier time. I didn’t realize you were in Amsterdam, so thank you for sticking with it and sharing your wisdom. 

Alejandra: [00:50:00] Thank you, Erica. Thank you for having me.